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    Home»Discussion forums»CQ HAMRADIO forum»Technology»Windom

    Windom

    Posted In: Technology

    • Visitor
      Anonymous on February 17, 2008 at 15:43 #11086

      Hello, since I don't know what to do with my free time, I'm experimenting with antennas a bit, but I want to ask for the opinion of experienced hams. I have a windom under construction with dimensions of 41m in length and powered at 13.6m, and as is known, at this point it has an impedance of 300 ohms, and I ask if it is possible to power it with a balun and tune it to the TRX with a Z-match? I built the Z-match according to a guide from a special issue about antennas. What do you think about this setup? Thank you for your opinions.

      Reply
      Participant
      Anonymous on February 18, 2008 at 11:51 #12191

      What about putting a 1:6 balun there??? PK

      Reply
      Visitor
      Anonymous on February 18, 2008 at 14:08 #12192

      Hello, of course I know about this option, I was just curious if it would work in the setup I described above...

      Reply
      Visitor
      Anonymous on February 18, 2008 at 14:20 #12193

      And so I have come to the answer that I probably cannot use the balun because the windom is a multi-band antenna and the balun would always be tuned to only one band, or if I used an untuned length, it would be a repeater on some frequency, so the impedance would still be 300 ohms, at least that's how I understood it... So it follows that I can only use the 6:1 balun and a 50-ohm coax or a single-wire lead and tune that.

      Reply
      Participant
      om0aao (OM0A) on February 18, 2008 at 15:09 #12194

      The antenna behaves differently in various environments (height, surrounding buildings, substrate), sometimes the changes are very pronounced. The variant with a balun like FD-4 is proven. Not every band will be ideal, but even the worst case will be decent.

      See: http://www.radio-foto.net/radio/windom.php

      The balun must be made well - using suitable materials, appropriate wire, and securely protected against moisture ingress.

      Suitable antennas are offered by Jirka. http://www.ok5im.com/

      Reply
      Participant
      om3cvv on February 19, 2008 at 6:33 #12195

      If you have space and especially height for the ladder, then make a G5RV. Otherwise, take a look at http://users.erols.com/k3mt/windom/windom.htm , you have it there with a balun.
      The G5RV is also described here http://www.packetradio.com/windom.htm

      Reply
      Participant
      Anonymous on February 19, 2008 at 11:48 #12196

      The G5RV antenna has 300 ohms at the feed point, so you can use a 300 ohm twin line. But you still have to transform the impedance with a balun to 50 ohms. Whether you do it at the feed point or at the transceiver is up to you, and this applies to all bands on which the antenna operates!!!

      Reply
      Visitor
      Anonymous on February 19, 2008 at 14:39 #12197

      Hi, thank you for the advice.. I'm interested in that G5RV, so can the length of the ladder be arbitrary when I connect it to the transmatch?? Because I saw instructions where the length of the ladder was 10.36m. and then there was a coax connected. So it was fed this way for impedance matching? So I wouldn't have to use a transmatch?

      Reply
      Participant
      om0aao (OM0A) on February 19, 2008 at 17:47 #12198

      The G5RV is not a bad antenna. However, Luis originally designed it as a gain antenna for the 20m band, and it was later discovered that it can be used on other bands.

      The version with the ladder to the shack is better.

      The impedance of the antenna is strongly dependent on the environment, and there is very little hope that the impedance matching will work on all bands. Moreover, connecting a balanced and unbalanced feed line will cause the flow of return currents and likely problems with TVI.

      Which antenna depends primarily on spatial possibilities and requirements for the type of connection. For example, 1/4 vertical on 80m is an excellent DX antenna, but for close range connections, a horizontal dipole or Inv.V is better.

      Lukáš, could you specify the requirements for the antenna and the spatial possibilities in more detail?

      Reply
      Visitor
      Anonymous on February 20, 2008 at 1:19 PM #12199

      Hello, I am talking about an antenna that I could use from 80m to 20m, possibly even down to 10m. Regarding space, I have a free area about 45m long between two apartment buildings. I live at the very top of one apartment building. I have shortlisted some antennas, but now I can't decide on the best option. I've considered these antennas: windom powered by coax through a balun, dipole powered by a ladder line, W3DZZ, G5RV, I might also get INN-V on the roof, and I could also think about a delta loop... Which of these antennas would you recommend for the future?If possible, so that it could be operated on the 80m band with both CW and SSB operation.

      Reply
      Participant
      om0aao (OM0A) on February 20, 2008 at 5:28 PM #12200

      The required bandwidth on 80m would only be achieved by a dipole antenna with a large conductor diameter (several meters). Usually, this is realized by flat or even better spatial placement of multiple conductors. For example:
      http://pagesperso-orange.fr/f5rrs/images/ya-30.jpg

      A Windom powered with a ladder line can be tuned anywhere – if there is a suitable ATU.

      The G5RV construction with a ladder line to coax will not be good. For a narrow segment, e.g., only CW, where the higher frequencies are multiples of the lower band, it might be possible to tune it, but I wouldn't attempt it for larger tuning.

      W3DZZ is operational, but the bandwidth on 80m is smaller. If quality traps are made, it works well.

      There is also the option of parallel dipoles, e.g.:
      http://www.hamuniverse.com/multidipole.html

      I would choose either FD-4, because it is a simple antenna, proven over the years to be a good antenna, it results in a short feed with coax cable, but with the disadvantage that the bandwidth will be smaller, or a Windom powered with a ladder line, which requires a bit more effort (ladder line, ATU, and tuning when changing frequency), but rewards with the ability to tune anywhere.

      Reply
      Visitor
      Anonymous on February 20, 2008 at 5:47 PM #12201

      Hi, thank you for the advice, I will probably try the FD-4 or if I manage to make a ladder line, I will try to feed it with that as I wrote above, I have a Z-match which also has a balanced output, hopefully it could tune it...

      Reply
      Participant
      om0aao (OM0A) on February 20, 2008 at 6:27 PM #12202

      Hi,

      It will be my pleasure if the advice is helpful. Hopefully, I will get a QSO with you, hi. A toroid for the balun for FD-4 can be obtained from Martin Karasz, or a balun or the whole antenna from Jirka OK5IM. A suitable toroid is rarely just lying around... and poor material would negatively affect the properties of the antenna.

      Z-match is an excellent matching circuit. Feeding with a ladder line is a bit problematic since it needs to be made very well due to the bend (from the center of the antenna down, then to the side and up to the shack). In the case of a shack on a lower floor, it would be simple.

      The actual decision about the antenna is usually made by a radio amateur based on feeling. For example, I have bad experience with HB9CV and I prefer antennas with higher impedance, ideally with 50 ohm impedance at the feed point (1/4 vertical, OWA yagi, quad). But there are certainly radio amateurs who have the opposite experience.

      Reply
      Visitor
      Anonymous on February 22, 2008 at 1:22 pm #12203

      Hello, regarding the toroid, we have some in the radio club and I also have some at home, so I will try to wind several baluns and then we will choose the most suitable one by measuring. and yes, as you write, I would probably have quite a problem getting it into the apartment, maybe more than with the production itself...

      but as for my favorite antennas, I prefer wire antennas like LW or then dipole, I also had a vertical one, but alas, on the roof I could not stretch full-fledged counterweights or anchor it well...

      But as for the joint QSO, maybe we'll meet somewhere on 80m. band in the SSB sector, I make connections there under the club brand OM3KMK, for now I only answer the stations that call challenge, but I am also going to practice calling challenge...

      Reply
      Participant
      om3cug on February 27, 2008 at 10:38 am #12204

      Hello Lukas,
      I see you are an apartment ham (like me), so I dealt with the same concerns and I am still dealing with them…
      I would also recommend FD4, best with a balun, it will tune beautifully everywhere, but it will be good with a balun too. Buy a ready-made balun because trying to figure out which toroid will be good doesn't seem very practical to me.
      Imagine putting your new FD4 up and down maybe 5 times and changing the balun for the great 'interest' of neighbors and residents of nearby apartments – you will create a lot of problems because every internet outage, TV, and broken television at the neighbor's will fall on your head. I speak from my own experience! One more piece of advice – build antennas in the housing estate fundamentally (I'm not joking) at night and when it is deserted. In the morning they won't even notice the wire.
      Check out my pages for inspiration http://www.QSL.net/om3cug where you will see how I have made wire antennas for 80/160m and mainly how I have built the vertical HF9V on the roof and anchored without problems. FD4 will work well from 80 to 10m but when you set up a vertical on the roof, your eyes will first pop out and then your jaw will drop because you realize what a huge difference it is on the upper bands compared to wire. I only operate with QRP 5W and look at my pages yourself to see what can be done with such an antenna setup.
      I wish you good luck with the antenna installation, 73 Igor OM3CUG

      Reply
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